Canada Calling
October 1999
by Bryce Lee
INDUSTRY NEWS
Bombardier Transportation has won C$135-million worth of contracts to
supply trains in France and Germany. Bombardier Transportation has
received orders from France's Societé Nationale des Chemins de Fer for 12 Duplex TGV
train sets and from Regie Autonome des Transports Parisiens for 12 double-deck MI2N sets.
Those orders are worth C$65 million and C$49 million, respectively, and deliveries are to
begin in 2001. In Germany, Bombardier is to deliver six Talent diesel-mechanical multiple
units to private operator Eurobahn Verkehrsgesellschaft mbH & Co. The contract is
valued at C$21 million. The three-car units will be made by Bombardier in Aachen, Germany,
for delivery next April or May.
The small railroad museum in Chatham Ontario is facing a crisis.
Several dedicated fund raisers for the Chatham Railroad Museum Society
have died over the past couple of years. Because of that, the museum could close. The
museum, housed in a former railway car near the VIA station in Chatham sees about 2000
visitors each summer. It explains a lot of local rail history through artifacts and
displays. The museum society receives a grant for summer students, usually students
interested in a museum career. Most of the rest of its funding comes from bingos! But
without volunteers the money received from bingo operations is being depleted. Once those
funds are gone, the museum could close.
The Whitepass and Yukon Railroad has been ordered to pay almost US$300,000
in restitution for employees' taxes. The order follows Whitepass' guilty pleas to
three charges of devising a scheme to avoid paying employee taxes. The Skagway-based
railroad moved seasonal employees to a different company payroll but then leased the same
employees back in a move designed to avoid taxes. The company was fined US$75,000, plus
US$24,000 in costs and placed on probation for three years. United States assistant
attorney Dan Cooper says the railroad entered into a civil settlement in which they will
pay taxes in the amount of US$278,000 to the Rail Road Retirement Board.
The public and the Saskatchewan government will team up to argue why
national railways are charging too much for branch lines in the province. The
Canadian Transportation has confirmed a public hearing on the issue will take place later
in 1999. The focus will be on the cost of the 74-kilometre Cudworth rail line in central
Saskatchewan. Last spring when the CNR announced it was abandoning the line, the railway
said it was willing to sell the tracks for C$1.6-million. That price has now jumped to
more than C$3-million. The provincial government says it will cover all legal costs and
speak on behalf of farmers at the hearing.
The United States government on Friday August 13, contributed a further C$7 million to
a Canadian project to develop a locomotive that could provide high-speed rail
service without expensive electrification of rail lines. The Department of
Transportation (DOT) said it sent the funds to Montreal-based Bombardier Inc. for work on
the gas turbine-powered train, which will aim for a top speed of 150 miles per hour.
Bombardier and the DOT are sharing the development costs equally. Each party contributed
C$3 million last year to commence the project. The prototype is scheduled for delivery
next August for testing at the Federal Railroad Administration facility in Pueblo,
Colorado. The design uses a gas turbine connected directly to a generator to deliver power
to four independent motors. The new locomotive is being built around the same chassis
Bombardier is using for all-electric locomotives for the Acela service due to begin
hauling high-speed trains between Washington, New York and Boston late in 1999.
The chief of the Dakota Tipi Indian reserve in southern Manitoba has
condemned a mid-August raid on a reserve casino. The RCMP seized 30 machines from the
gaming hall, claiming they had been illegally smuggled into Canada from North Dakota.
Chief Dennis Pashe says he will follow through with an earlier threat to block
railways. The casino has been operating since last month without provincial
approval. Pashe says today's raid is not the first time the provincial government has
stepped into the band's gambling operations. He says when the band set up its first casino
in 1986, it was advised the band to shut it down and negotiate with the provinces. Pashe
says it seems the government wants to have a monopoly on all gambling operations in the
province. He says the band needs revenue from gambling to improve community services. The
chief later backed down on threats of civil disobedience. Pashe says he is not calling for
any immediate action but didn't rule it out as a future course of action. In the meantime
the provincial government called an election and the railway blockade has been postponed
until after the provincial election. Dakota Tipi spokesperson Terrance Nelson says there
are a number of reasons for the delay. He says Chief Dennis Pache wants to organize a
national meeting in Manitoba before taking action. and Nelson says when the blockade takes
place it won't be just local.
Canada's railways say they don't appreciate being involved in a
gambling-licence dispute between the Dakota Tipi First Nation and the government
of the province of Manitoba. While CP hasn't officially heard from anyone at Dakota Tipi,
railway staff are being cautious. Due to Manitoba's central location, a shutdown of
railways could affect the entire country. Both CN and CP have contacted the RCMP to
discuss the threat and both railways have increased track patrols. Some members of First
Nations in Manitoba say they will defy a court order forbidding them from blockading rail
lines. On August 19 Canadian National and Canadian Pacific railways were granted a court
injunction prohibiting members of the Dakota Tipi reserve, or their sympathizers, from
blocking rail lines. The injunction, gives police the power to immediately arrest any
trespassers on railway property.
GO Transit will open up access to the west side of Union Station,
giving passengers a more direct route between the train platforms and York Street or the
SkyWalk. New stairs will be built at the extreme west end of Union Station to connect one
platform directly with the SkyWalk, and link three other platforms with the covered
pedestrian teamway (or walkway) on the west side of York Street below the tracks. The new
stairs will help ease passenger congestion on the GO platforms, especially during the
morning rush hour. The existing stairs are all clustered in the middle of the platforms or
toward the east end, so passengers now tend to crowd into the easternmost train cars to be
closer to the stairs on arrival at Union Station. Construction has begun and should finish
in February 2000. Union Station is GO Transit's busiest station, used by 115,000 GO
commuters every weekday. GO will also be preparing for winter by modernizing some key
track switches and snow blowers in the approaches to Union Station, just outside the
station's west end. Five new hot air blowers for snow melting will be installed, and 10
key switches will be upgraded with new, more-powerful motors. GO Transit's Board recently
approved the switch upgrade work; the snow blower installation was approved in May. The
new equipment, to be installed before this winter, will reduce the impact of severe
weather and heavy snowfalls such as the ones in last January's big snowstorms.
Three major railways and the federal transport minster are facing a lawsuit
from the family of an engineer who died in a train accident. Kevin Lihou died
April 23 after a VIA accident in Thamesville near London, Ontario. Lihou and another
engineer were killed when the passenger train they were operating derailed. The lawsuit
seeks C$18.5-million in compensation. The family alleges the collision occurred as a
result of negligence on the parts of VIA, CN, CP and Federal Transport Minister David
Collenette.
Following the accident at Thamesville Ontario there was some discussion as to where in Canada
passenger trains continue to operate in dark territory. Some of the endpoints and
distances are approximate in the following list; this gives an rough idea the extent of
dark territory (radio train order) still with passenger service. VIA Rail: Moncton to
Riviere-du-Loup 363 miles; Gaspe to Matapedia 202 miles; Pointe-aux-Trembles to Jonquiere
288 miles; Hervey to Senneterre 311 miles; de Beaujeu to Hawthorne (Ottawa) 65 miles;
Federal (Ottawa) to Brockville 62 miles; Georgetown to London 90 miles; Komoka (London) to
Windsor 98 miles; Portage la Prairie to Churchill 936 miles; Thompson Junction to Thompson
30 miles; Flin Flon Junction to Lynn Lake 238 miles; Tete Jaune to Prince George 185
miles; Victoria to Courtenay 140 miles. Quebec North Shore & Labrador: Ross Bay
Junction to Schefferville 134 miles. GO Transit: Stouffville to Scarborough 20 miles;
Concord to Bradford 28 miles. Ontario Northland: Gravenhurst to Moosonee 553 miles. Algoma
Central: Sault Ste. Marie to Hearst 296 miles. BC Rail: North Vancouver to Prince George
461 miles.
Based upon recent CN-CP negotiations, the Haldimand Norfolk Region (between
Hamilton-Wentworth and Niagara Regions) has finally decided to go ahead with the reconstruction
of a new high bridge in Waterford, Ontario south of Brantford to facilitate
future use of the CASO subdivision. The CASO is presently out of service and has been for
some years. The present bridge of concrete construction is crumbling due to age and heavy
traffic loads. The region is hoping the eventual owner of the railway line will help pick
up the tab for reconstruction; construction is expected to start in October of 1999.
CSXT, operating former Conrail lines has opened a bulk transfer facility in
Beauharnois, Quebec, 15 miles southeast of Montreal and will now try to undercut
CN and CP on shipments to and from Montreal, such as phosphate rock from Florida, as well
as some lumber and newsprint from Quebec. Not only does CSXT have their bulk transfer
facility at Beauharnois, they now plan to build a large intermodal terminal as well. The
phosphate rock trains from Florida will now move all the way to Delson by CSXT. CSXT will
operate via Adirondack Junction, and deliver the stuff right to St. Catharine, on CP's
trackage all legal under North America Free Trade Association agreements.
CANADIAN NATIONAL RAILWAYS
A rock is a rock is a rock; except when it's a symbol of aboriginal heritage.
Canadian National Railways has angered members of the Stolo Nation by blowing up one such
symbol in the lower Fraser Canyon near Yale BC about 90 kilometres northeast of Vancouver.
CN said the company considered the rock known as momet'es a danger to work crews
when it was destroyed June 14. CN will be meeting soon with the Sto:lo Nation to request
an inventory to determine which rocks are considered significant to them. The rock was on
a reserve belonging to the Yale Indian band, which is within Sto:lo traditional territory.
The rock was blasted because an avalanche of rock and mud had caused a CP freight train to
derail. The debris blocked the CN line and a work crew was sent in to clear it. But Ernie
Crey of the Sto:lo Nation said momet'es was not a hazard and was a considerable distance
from the railway line on the mountain ridgetop. The cultural adviser to the Sto:lo Nation,
said momet'es is one of about 100 so-called transformer rocks in the Sto:lo territory. He
said the Sto:lo people believe some of their ancient ancestors were transformed into stone
or resources, such as fish, and there are stories that surround each transformation. He
said elders have told him this particular rock; shaped like a pointing finger was a
reminder to the people to be good. Archaeologist David Schaepe, who works for the Sto:lo
Nation, said many transformers have been lost due to work on railways and highways. He
believes transformer rocks need to be protected under the Heritage Conservation Act. They
currently don't have that protection because the province defines archaeological artifacts
as things created by humans. Schaepe said only one transformer has heritage status in
Sto:lo territory. That's because it is surrounded by artifacts such as arrowheads and
blades and is near an old village site.
CN train 380 was passing CN train 277 at Watford Ontario on August 11 when a
hanging ladder on the last car of train 380 came loose and struck the front window and
door of CN SD40-2 5386 causing other body damage. It has been determined the
ladder become dislodged while enroute on the Strathroy Subdivision.
Canadian National's main rail line through the B.C. interior was expected to be
closed for three days in mid-August. Forty cars of a 100-car freight train
derailed during the afternoon of August 15 at mile 11.5 of the Clearwater Subdivision,
about 170 kilometres north of Kamloops. No one was hurt in the accident; the derailed cars
were loaded with grain products. Motive power was GE Dash 9- 44CWL 2583 and SD60F 5546,
the dedicated grain train derailed cars from the middle of the train, with some cars
landing in the nearby river. Six trains each way were detoured via CP in Calgary (some
from Saskatoon to Calgary rather than via Edmonton). Of these, one each way per day went
CP to and from Edmonton. One train in each direction used B.C. Rail via Prince George. VIA
No. 1 had arrived Jasper and turned as No. 2. VIA had five cars and one unit in Edmonton
that deadheaded to Vancouver from Edmonton. Two RMR trains also managed to be in Jasper at
the same time, overnight as a result of the accident, with RMR HATX GP40's 800, 803, and
805 all there at the same time.
From Friday August 20 until mid-January, 2000 the lobby of the head office for
Canadian National Railways in Montreal will be undergoing major reconstruction in
order to create a fresh new image for the newly expanded CN. In addition, by mid-February,
the former Bank of Nova Scotia will be CN's new meeting exhibition and multi-media centre.
The new lobby will have visual interest, including a large route network map and a video
wall. There will be others changes as well with the convenience store in the lobby being,
the entrance and exit to the corridor to Central Station be removed, and escalators to the
second floor will be reinstated.
Claude Mongeau is used to getting there first. The now 37-year-old
Montreal native was barely 30 when he was named the youngest partner ever at consulting
firm Groupe Secor Inc. in 1992. Three years later, he became the youngest vice-president
in the history of one of the country's most venerable companies, Canadian National Railway
Co. Recently Mr. Mongeau demolished another record when CN named him senior vice-president
and chief financial officer (CFO), the youngest person to hold that post at Canada's
largest railway. Mr. Mongeau's appointment was one of two top management changes announced
by Montreal-based CN to fill the gap left by executive vice-president and CFO Michael
Sabia. Mr. Sabia, 45, is leaving October 1 to become vice-chairman and chief executive
officer of Bell Canada International Inc. CN also named Jeff Ward, 41, as executive
vice-president of strategic planning effective October 1, 1999. Mr. Ward, a native of
Altoona, Pennyslvania, joins the railway from consultants A.T. Kearney Inc. of Chicago,
where he has spent the past 15 years, most recently as a vice-president. While analysts
expressed confidence that Mr. Ward and Mr. Mongeau are up to the task of continuing the
impressive track record established by Mr. Sabia, the latter's departure clearly unnerved
investors.
An invasion-of-privacy lawsuit by 19 members of the Brotherhood of Locomotive
Engineers against Canadian National Railways' U.S. unit will soon be heard in a
Michigan court. U.S. District Judge Robert H. Cleland ruled in favour of the engineers'
contention that the case should be returned to a state court. The railroad argued that the
case belonged in the U.S. court because the railroad is governed by federal statutes. The
plaintiffs claim that the state's eavesdropping and right-to-know act were violated when a
videotape camera was hidden in a locker room where they change clothes and meet before
beginning and ending their work. A CN spokesperson said the railroad would have no comment
because the matter is in litigation.
On August 27, the CN Cornwall (Ontario) yard assignment was pushing two cars towards
another three cars and had coupled to them on track at the Wesco/Iroquois spur which runs
southeast off the Kingston Subdivision. Crew noticed a little further down track that 5
cars they had placed two days previous were not where they had placed them and discovered
the far east end car STEX 20520 was over the bumper at the end of the track. The tank car
had run over the bumper post tearing a hole in the bottom of the car, allowing upwards of 20,000
gallons of heptyl alcohol to escape. Heptyl alcohol although non-toxic is
considered a flammable liquid. As a precaution, people were evacuated from a 1000 ft area
which included a shopping mall, restaurant, and motel. Also two highways, were closed as
well as the International bridge to the USA and traffic rerouted around the area. The
evacuation continued for another fifteen hours as the alcohol was contained and vacuumed
into a truck.
At least forty cars of a ninety-seven car train, derailed over a mile
long stretch on the Grand Trunk District Holly Subdivision on August 29 around noon. The
Pontiac, to Flat Rock, Michigan train 456 was composed of new General Motors vehicles,
auto parts, and general freight. The accident occurred on a stretch that spanned
Birmingham, Bloomfield Township and Troy, Michigan in Oakland County. Some fire were
reported as a result the fuel tanks on the new vehicles catching fire. The official cause
of the incident is under investigation.
Canadian National Road Railers built by Wabash National have been
received from NS in Detroit recently and have moved on intermodal train Q140 to Toronto
and some have then been forwarded to Montreal on Ecorail train E282. Train Q140 runs
Mondays only, Detroit 1800, Toronto 0430 Tuesdays. The first unofficial operation of new
Road Railers westbound from Montreal was the evening of August 26 when train E283, with
GP38-2 4765, had 13 Road Railers. The new Road Railers are in standard CN intermodal
colours of white with the red CN noodle. A recap of old Ecorail equipment and new Ecorail
Road Railers shows 64 old Ecorail cars in series ECO 1-67 with some retired, with 30 at
Malport and 34 in Taschereau Yard. 76 new Ecorail Road Railers in series numbered
1001-1080 and 2001-2004 are located as 33 at Malport, two at Ajax, two at Brockville, and
39 in Taschereau Yard. More are to be delivered.
CANADIAN PACIFIC RAILWAY
The CPR had been detouring StL&H trains 504 and 505 from Canpa in
the west end of Toronto to Chicago via CN and the GTW. It would appear that this interim
solution to the post-Conrail takeover has concluded. CP is now detouring trains 502, 503
and possibly 507 via the Hamilton Subdivision to Buffalo, and then on CSXT (ex-Conrail) to
Detroit (507) and Chicago (502/503). These trains have been running as extra sections of
regular Hamilton Subdivision trains (i.e. 2nd 730, 5th 522, 3rd 521, etc.), and as X502,
X503, (X507?) while on CSXT.
Canadian Pacific Limited announced August 16, 1999 that, subject to final regulatory
approval, it intends to purchase for cancellation up to ten million of its Common
Shares, representing approximately 3 per cent of the 332,433,706 issued and
outstanding common shares. The purchases may commence on August 19, 1999 and will
terminate on August 18, 2000, or on such earlier date as Canadian Pacific may complete its
purchases pursuant to the notices of intention filed with the Toronto, Montreal, Vancouver
and Alberta stock exchanges. Purchases may also be made through the facilities of The New
York Stock Exchange. The price to be paid will be the market price at the time of
acquisition. Canadian Pacific believes that the market price of its Common Shares may be
such that their purchase would be an attractive and appropriate use for corporate funds in
light of potential benefits to remaining shareholders.
CPR has released an expanded version of its Equipment Tracing application.
Functioning much the same as the original, Equipment Tracing II now allows traces of up to
100 units, as well as the ability to save lists for retracing. As Equipment Tracing II is
a secured application, access must be obtained through Your Track. Traces using the
original Equipment Tracing application will be restricted to a maximum of 12 units as of
August 31, 1999. Once the majority of our customers are utilizing Equipment Tracing II,
the public application will be removed from the site. To access Equipment Tracing II: 1.
Register as a Your Track user 2. Once you have a user code and password, log in to Your
Track; 3. Click Update Your Selections to customize Your Track and request access to
Equipment Tracing II. 4. Under E-Business, click the Equipment Tracing II box and then
submit. 5. You have now requested Equipment Tracing II. You will be contacted within 2
business days with a user code and password to access the application through "Your
Track." This change may well be as a result of unauthorized individuals accessing the
tracing system to obtain information about the whereabouts of locomotives and cars.
SHORTLINES
Canadian National announced August 10, 1999 it has reached an agreement in principle
with Kelowna Pacific Railway Ltd. for the transfer of 167 kilometres (104
miles) of rail lines in British Columbia's Okanagan Valley. The transfer agreement
includes CN's Okanagan and Lumby subdivisions, which extend from Kelowna and Lumby in
south-central BC through Vernon to Campbell Creek, near Kamloops. The rail network
transports mostly forest products, grain and industrial products for rail customers in the
Okanagan. It handles an average of 12,500 carloads of freight traffic annually. Kelowna
Pacific Railway is owned 35 per cent by Trillium Railway Company Ltd. of Dunnville,
Ontario, and 65 per cent by KnightHawk Inc. of Toronto. Trillium, a short-line operator
with corporate headquarters in Dunnville, Ontario, and administrative headquarters in
Gowanda, N.Y., is owned by Canadian entrepreneurs and U.S. operators of short lines. It
presently operates the Port Colborne Harbour Railway as well as the St. Thomas and Eastern
in the province of Ontario. KnightHawk provides domestic and Canada-U.S. contract rail and
air cargo freight services for rail and courier customers. The agreement is expected to
conclude October 1, 1999.
New Brunswick East Coast has placed two of their six ex CP 424's in
service. However, operating east on train 402 August 23, 4210 burnt off a journal, and had
to be set off at Harcourt New Brunswick. The crew observed this moments before a
derailment could have happened. Repairs are underway. Two of SLR-Q's ex CN M420W's
including the re-painted 3517 are in Alstom in Montreal being repaired after a collision
with at gravel truck in Gilead Maine, in July of 1999.
RaiLink Mackenzie Northern has leased long-term three EMD BL20-2
demonstrators. The three will be repainted in RaiLink colours and numbered 2120 2121,
2122. These are chop-nosed units, (formerly numbered EMD 120-122), which were
remanufactured from former BN GP9's 1978, 1964 and 1713, (Nee-SP&S 163, CB&Q 279
and NP 213 in 1992.) With their new cabs and long hood, they bear little resemblance to
GP9's. The trio will be used exclusively in Alberta. These were EMD's mind dream for a
remanufactured branchline unit that nobody ever became interested in. They're 2000
horsepower, and have been leased to BN for the past five years or so. All three, have to
pass through ILS's shop at Thief River Falls, Minnesota before delivery to RaiLink.
The Ontario Northland had a 12-car derailment 18.2 miles north of
Englehart, during the first week of August 1999. CN train 451 August 2 with units CN SD75I
5743, SD40-2 5392, SD50F 5425 was detoured via Oba, Wisconsin Central (ACR) at Hearst,
then to the ONR. The ONR derailment was cleared within one or two days.
The takeover of the Miami and Hartney Subdivisions in Southern Manitoba was effective
0001 Sunday August 22, 1999. Reporting marks will be SMNR. The Miami and Hartney
Subdivisions are called the Southern Manitoba Railway. CN will take
traffic to them on train 532 on Mondays and will lift traffic from them on train 533 on
Wednesdays. The mileages transferred to the SMNR are mile 2.01 to 102.2 Miami Subdivision,
and 0.0 to 41.0 of the Hartney Subdivision. Motive power will be Canac-sold M420W's 3518
and 3536#2 and HR412W 3576.
MOTIVE POWER
CNR:
Canadian National Railways is leasing 65 GP40-2 locomotives, 40 to CSXT, 25 to Norfolk
Southern, effective August 18, 1999. The initial lease period is six months.
- To CSXT: GTW GP40-2: 6406, 6407, 6408, 6409, 6410, 6413, 6415, 6419, 6420, 6424; CN
GP40-2L(W): 9404, 9505, 9406, 9413, 9420, 9426, 9431, 9441, 9442, 9443, 9457, 9464, 9485,
9490, 9504, 9514, 9519, 9520, 9541, 9574, 9578, 9603, 9610, 9637; GP4-2(W): 9638, 9639,
9645, 9658, 9661, 9666.
- To Norfolk Southern: CN GP40-2L(W): 9400, 9405, 9407, 9417, 9419, 9430, 9436, 9447,
9448, 9456, 9479, 9481, 9484, 9509, 9528, 9534, 9548, 9552, 9564, 9600, 9605, 9613, 9628,
9631; GP40-2(W) 9643.
Helm concluded an agreement with CN to utilize certain GP40-2 locomotives. This
agreement is in addition to previously announced leases of CN motive power to both CSXT
and Norfolk Southern. The locomotives are 9401, 9403, 9408, 9412, 9414, 9432, 9434, 9438,
9458, 9459, 9463, 9465, 9466, 9470, 9471, 9472, 9478, 9480, 9522, 9526, 9570, 9632, 9634,
9636, 9641, 9642, 9644, 9646, 9647, 9649, 9650, 9651, 9652, 9653, 9655, 9656, 9657, 9659,
9660, 9662, 9663, 9664, 9665, 9667. These will be leased by Helm and assigned to the
Norfolk Southern. The intent is to have half of the locomotives operate through Buffalo
for delivery and the balance to operate to Woodcrest Yard for delivery at Chicago,
Illinois.
The 4733-series of UP SD40's rebuilds that emerging from NRE have a wide range of
ancestries. Some are from old SD45 hulks that have been sitting around for ages. Some were
from the Precision National garage sale of years ago. Four, however, are from failed CN
SD40's that went to NRE in 1998. UP 4750, 4752, 4761, and 4762 are rebuilt from ex-CN
5005, 5046, 5071, and 5196.
CPR:
Stored serviceable on the first weekend in August at the north end of St.Luc shop, in
Montreal, waiting for their leases to expire, were GP40's HATX 504, 510, 512, 515, 516,
518, 806, and HLCX 4201, 4203, and 4290. 4290 is a GP40-2W, ex-CN 9654. STCUM FP7A 1300
was stored unserviceable, has been cannibalised, but otherwise looks fine outwardly.
SHORTLINES:
Quebec Gatineau Railway retired in February 1999 MLW's RS18u 1816, C424s 4214, 4241,
and 4242, which leaves 1801, 1846, 1847, 4212, 4222, 4223, and 4228 possibly still
operational.
The Ontario Southland Railway, a locomotive leasing company and shortline operator has
purchased high short nose ex-Soo Line GP7 383, class of 1952. The only other one on Soo's
roster, 378, built in 1951, is being kept for historical purposes.
Thanks to the following for information compiled in the October 1999
Canada Calling: Rainer Auer, Tom Box, Will Baird, Bruce Chapman, Peter Jobe, Joe Kazmar,
Randy Kotuby, Dave Lisabeth, Mike Muir, Doug Page, Thomas Sajnovic, Jim Sandilands,
LGRsmith.
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